High school credit for the Form series

[Jen in Japan]

Hello. I am in need of some guidance as to the best way to handle high school Latin I, II, and III credits.

My DD used FF Latin in 7th and we loved it. We are cruising through SF in 8th and learning more than we ever have, given that *I* am only learning Latin with my student.

We are enrolled with DL school that uses Henle I as "Latin I" and part of Henle I and II as "Latin II" for high school credit. I want my DD to take Latin as her high school language, at least for 2 credits, maybe 3 credits.

How to proceed? We really love the way the Form series is guiding us through Henle's Latin Grammar, but I get that it is not exactly an equivalent to Henle I (or not until completing 4th Form).

1. Can I legimately give her a "Latin I" credit for high school after 3rd Form? Then, a "Latin II" credit after 4th form? Would it be within acceptable high school parameters to give her a "Latin III" credit for then going through Henle II?

2. If we need to go to Henle for a true "Latin I" high school credit (content wise), can we go directly from SF? I worry that we will lose all the hand-holding we've received from Mr Moore on our DVDs. Would be so easy if MP had a DVD for Henle I!!

Any advice you can give would be appreciated. I am going to assume that there are others in my same boat: our kids began the Form series in late middle school and want to know how to proceed into high school credit Land.

[tanya]

Hello.

We actually give 1 high school credit for each Form completed in high school. It does take longer to get through the Forms than it does to get through Henle I, but the Forms require more work in each specific area, resulting in mastery of the grammar. Each lesson takes 3-4 hours each week to complete.

Here is Martin Cothran's explanation for our approach to Latin and high school credit:

. The programs that contain more translation than the Form series tend to be inductive in their approach. They try to immerse students in the actual language, much like they would have learned English when they were young. This is similar to the whole language method used to teach reading in many public schools. If you have an experienced teacher and you are able to spend several hours a day on Latin with a group of students who are able to converse together, this method can work. But the immersion method is harder to use if you don't have that luxury. The benefits of Latin go beyond the mere ability to translate or even speak Latin: the grammar knowledge and mental skills one acquires in Latin study are at least as important. Immersion approaches do not tend to emphasize grammar or present it in a systematic way and therefore do not give the student the grammar knowledge and mental training that come from more grammar-based approaches. The Form series recognizes that Latin is much more difficult than many modern languages which are commonly taught using the inductive/immersion approach. The biggest factor in this difficulty is in the fact that Latin is an inflected language and it is hard to understand the extremely complex noun system without learning it systematically.

One publisher does indeed do the first Henle Latin text in a year. We would commend them for their ability to do this. Even with the many experienced Latin instructors we have at our school, however, we would not attempt this. We emphasize full mastery at every level of learning. It is certainly not impossible to cover that much Latin in a year, but we have always preferred an approach that ensures that the student has fully internalized the knowledge and skills of each aspect of the grammar. It's a bit like doing Bible study: you may have a choice between covering the Bible in a year or studying one book of the Bible for a year. They are both equally challenging, but they do two different things. Covering the Bible in a year will give you a good overview, but does not allow you to study any one thing deeply; whereas studying one book of the Bible over a longer period of time will allow the student to have a fuller and deeper knowledge of that one text. One method is deep and the other is wide. Many seminaries offer both of these kinds of classes, but give the same course credit to both. To cover Henle Latin I in a year is indeed a great accomplishment, but we prefer a slower approach that allows for full mastery at every level.

So, I think you are on the right path to continue with the Forms (and the dvd help) before tackling Henle. You have time for both, and you will definitely have the high school credit you are needing!

Regards,

Tanya Charlton

[Jen in Japan]

Tanya,

I love seeing Mr Cotheran's comments about the differences between wide and deep (immersion vs mastery) programs.

I guess here is my concern: if "someone" (college admissions officers, high school counselors) look at my DD's transcript and see a Latin 1, 2, and 3 credit for 2nd Form, 3rd Form, and 4th Form, won't they assume she has a certain basic level of knowledge and/or translating experience? Would that be a problem?

The only language I am familiar with has these standards: Japanese. The Japanese I credit has 200 teaching kanji, the Japanese II credit has 500 teaching kanji, etc. Because of this, I keep wondering if I *can* give a Latin I credit until a certain level of knowledge (mastery!) has been met.

I guess this might be a philosophical difference of opinion, but I crave your (or Mr Cotheran's) opinion about the matter.

[Jen in Japan]

Bump.

I would still like to hear if the CONTENT of a program should dictate a Latin I credit or if simple "hours on the clock" is sufficient.

[martin]

Jen,

The only reason the content would dictate whether a course should receive a high school credit is if the institution that your student is transferring or applying to has some specific criteria for what constitutes a high school credit for a particular subject. I am not aware of any colleges and universities who are terribly specific about what constitutes a high school Latin credit, and there is a great deal of diversity in Latin courses depending on what school is offering it. Most schools definitely follow an inductive, translation-heavy approach. Ours would be on the other, grammar-intensive side of the spectrum. When kids get to college, they will encounter a great deal of translation. Some people feel like doing a lot of translation before they get there is the best preparation. We think rather that a solid grounding in grammar is the thing the pays off in the long run and the experience of our students who go on to college seems to bear this out.

[Jen in Japan]

Mr. Cothran,

Thank you for that final clarification. As I posted, I am most familiar with high school level Japanese credits and that language has *definite* guidelines for I, II, III, and IV credits, due the the nature and difficulty of the written language. I feel very heartened that I can award high school credits to my 8th grader, proceeding into high school, for her Forms work in Latin. We honestly do work for mastery, 3-5 hours a week. Her test average is nearly 100%.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify for me!

Jen