Question re: starting Henle for 7th grader

[lovinlearnin]

Hello,

My ds12 has very little Latin experience. He has memorized noun declensions and 1st conjugations, all tenses. He is strong in language arts and I feel, especially after looking at MP's website, that Henle I would be a good starting place for him. My only concern is I don't see a pronounciation CD available to this program. Could you please advise me on whether this is necessary? I understand Latin is an unspoken language. At the same time, while we are discussing it and learning, it would be very nice to be able to pronounce words correctly.

In MP's catalogue, I see 7th graders possibly beginning with Fourth Form Latin - but I do not see this on the website at all. Is the website possibly not updated or am I missing something?

I am trying to make the best purchase. So far I am thinking to get the Henle I set, plus the extra guide, plus the quizzes. Please advise whether I should consider something else to help us along.

Thank you so much for any input,
Cheryl

[tanya]

Cheryl,

Actually, First Form is where your son would start in the Forms. The guide in our catalog assumes that students begin Latin in grade 2 with Prima Latina - it is just a map. The Forms were written for older beginning students in grades 5-12, so it would be a perfect starting place for your son. And there is a pronunciation cd for First Form, though pronunciation isn't really all that important in Latin since your concentration is on the written word.

You can also begin with Henle in the 7th grade. The advantage to the Forms is that we provide lots of help for you if you have no Latin background. We have dvds that teach each lesson, as well as scripted lesson plans in our teacher manual. For Henle, there is not so much help, so if you decide to go this route, you may want to seriously consider a tutor or our online Henle classes. Our Henle guides are really syllabi, helping you to structure your work; there is very little teaching help.

Both programs are good, and either is age-appropriate for your son, so it really is just a matter of preference. The Forms would just be more student and teacher friendly if you are intimidated in the least about Latin.

Regards,

Tanya Charlton

[lovinlearnin]

thank you for your response. I would like to go with Second Form - I think I read that it has everything that First Form has, but goes at a faster pace. Is this true?

I want to get through all of Henle in high school. We are involved in lots of activities, and we are not a Latin-centered home school. I figure the only way to accomplish this goal is to start as close to the mark as possible. If Second Form is just more accelerated, I am sure my ds can handle it. He has close to a photographic memory and has enjoyed thie little bit of Latin he has learned. Plus his interest in Language Arts is strong.

I'm trying to give enough info to you so you can give the most helpful guidance. Please let me know if you think I can begin at this level - or if it's not a good starting point. I mean, would you recommend starting at Henle rather than at Second Form b/c Second Form is not a good starting place?

Thank you so much,
Cheryl

[momgineer]

Cheryl,
I am not with Memoria Press, so I am sure Tanya will have a much better answer for you, but I wanted to comment on our experience with the Memoria Press latin programs. They offer 3 different programs for 3 different age groups.
The Latina Christiana is for younger students. This includes Prima Latina and Latina Christiana 1 and 2. LC1 covers everthing in PL and lots more. LC2 gives a very short review of LC1 and then covers new material. I use PL in grade 3 and LC1 in grade 4.
The Forms Latin is for middle school or older beginers. There will be 4 "Forms". Currently there are 2 published with the 3rd in beta, I believe. The Forms will cover the complete Latin grammar- equivalent to Henle 1 but in four different levels. This makes it easier for middle schoolers to learn the grammar- they can break it up over 4 years. I love the Forms. They do a great job of explaining the grammar (Henle explanations confused this Latin novice!) and give plenty of drill to memorize the vocab and grammar. Middle schoolers usually do a Form a year, but older students or more advanced ones can do 2 Forms a year.
Henle is a high school level program. Memoria Press has a study guide that breaks Henle 1 into multiple years. They had this before they developed their Forms. I MUCH prefer the Forms to breaking Henle up in middle school. I tried that with my olders before the Forms came out and they struggled.
My Latin plan for my youngers is to do First Form in 5th and continue through Fourth Form in 8th and then do Henle 1 in 9th. That will give them a good review of the grammar and add in more translating exercises and more vocab. It will make the transition to high school Latin easier. Then they can do Henle 2 in 10th, 3 in 11th and 4 in 12th.
For your son who is in 7th grade with a strong memory, but very little Latin, I would strongly recommend doing the Forms. I would suggest that if he learns and memorizes quickly you can do First and Second Form in one year and 3rd and 4th (if they have it out then) the next. Basically move at your students pace and get as far into the Forms as you can before 9th grade and then do Henle 1 in 9th. You really should not start in Second Form unless he has all the grammar from First Form memorized. First Form has a lot of grammar- more than most other intro programs so it probably will have lots of new material for him. Second Form does not just do First Form faster- it has a quick review, but quickly gets into new material. You need to master First Form before going into Second. Trying to go into Second would be like trying to start in Algebra 2 without having had Algebra 1.
The Forms are not cutesy and funny, but they get the job done. The workbook has a lot of written drill work. Most kids need this to really master the grammar. It is one thing to memorize a list of declensions and such, but another to know how to apply and recognize the different cases and tenses. The workbook helps the student master this skill. This is very important when translating later in Henle. You do not want to have to chant a declension each time you read a noun just in order to know what case the noun is- you need to just recognize it right off. That is why I like the Forms so much- they really give the students that skill.

[tanya]

Thank you for summing this all up so well. I couldn't have done a better job.

Cheryl, if you want to jump into Second Form, your son would need to have a good grasp on all 5 noun declensions and the 6 active verb tenses in the 1st-2nd conjugations and 1st-2nd declension adjectives. If he does know all of this, he will probably be fine with Second Form since you are anxious to move forward.

Henle is not a bad option, but if he does the middle school Henle course, it would only cover the first 2 units of Henle, so he would only get nouns and adjectives. I'm afraid he would forget the verbs he knows. If you think he is ready, though, you could try the high school Henle class which covers units 1-5. It would be quite a bit of work for a 7th grader, but you know what he is capable of, so that would be your decision.

Lots to consider!

Tanya