How to reduce time on lessons?!

[Gretel Deem]

I have 2 students using Men of Rome studies and finishing up Christian Studies I. It is taking on some days 4 to 5 hours to complete! Should it be taking this long? They are 9 and 10. It seems they regularly struggle with answering in full the comprehension quetions (and other activity questions that require in depth answers). This message is coming from the same mom that recently posted a question about teaching without talking, so I am not able to do much discussion with them. I read in Latin Centered Curriculum by Andrew Campbell that it has been recommended to do CS on one day and the Men of studies on another day, science on one day, history on one day, etc. I thought this would simplify our studies. But we are doing over 10 hours of school every day and not completing things even then! I tried doing a litte bit of each on every day and that was taking the same amount of time. What am I doing wrong?! Someone please help! I am pulling m hair out here.

We are also taking a long time to do copy work. It took two hours for one of them today to copy three stanzas of a poem! It is a long poem, but two hours? I know we have distractions in our home but that is fairly normal, I'd think. It seems even so they should be able to do this type of thing, so what am I doing wrong? How do I help my children and have time to enjoy something else besides academics?

[jeremiah213]

Gretel, Just drop those subjects. If you have to choose between enjoying educating your kids and doing one more great subject. Choose enjoying your kids. In the end it'll be better for you and them, it will not matter if your students do one or two less subjects this year, they're in the 4th and 5th grade, there is plenty of time. With homeschooling...less is definitely more... can I get a witness? :)

[Mungo]

A couple of thoughts:

* When I recommend doing one non-core subject a day, I am assuming that you are picking and choosing questions and activities from the Rome and CS I curricula. I would read the text with the children, ask them the comprehension questions orally, and have them do perhaps one additional activity. If it's taking more than an hour and a half, once a week, you're trying to do too much. (If you can't read the text aloud, have the students take turns reading it to you.)

* Are you with your children when they're doing their work? Are they on task? Distractions are one thing, but most elementary-age children need very close supervision during their work time.

* Copywork should not take more than 10-15 minutes; if the content is longer than can comfortably be done in that time, break it up. I mean "comfortably" literally: if your students' hands are tired, they should stop. You might also want to check on their grips and posture to make sure they're not tensing up more than necessary, which can add to writing fatigue.

HTH!

-Drew Campbell

[Gretel Deem]

Thank you so much, both of you! Especially Drew Campbell. I must say I certainly did not expect to ge a response from the author himself, but wow is that helpful! I can say I have found your book extremely helpful. I return to it again and again and many things I have followed have been just superb.

Now, to respond to your points. That is very good to know, and I should have figured that. Actually, I should probably look into how many other areas of my life I am doing this: doing more than is necessary and assuming that's required! Yes, it makes much more sense to do it as you say. When we were reading aloud together, I remember they enjoyed it more.

The copywork timing also makes more sense.

I will take more note of the supervised or unsupervised. Again, helpful points. Also nice to know where "normal" is. Does it sound silly to say I sometimes don't know what is "normal" and okay and what is not? Perhaps my standards are too high.

Can you answer another question for me? The history recommendation for Artner's guide has been fantastic. I am a little unclear on how we should go about processing their work. Have you heard of a good way to go about doing that? Is it okay to just read? I know they are getting alot. Somewhere on this forum I saw a suggestion to do one review of one person or one book per week. My kids read much more than that and when prompted in just the right way they have a lot of great things to say, but that typically does make it to the paper. Is that okay or is there a way to remedy that?

Again, thanks a lot. What a super relief it is to have support. I have been going it alone for a while now, especially in regards to classical education, and I am beginning to feel better about things just knowing people will read and answer questions if I know where to go.

[Mungo]

At their ages, I would be more concerned about making sure they were getting a grasp of the major events and personalities of American history than that they were narrating the novels in detail. Artner's gives references to topics for each time period that you can cover with any basic history book or outline. The cottage school my dd attends uses _Everything You Need to Know about American History Homework_ as a spine for middle schoolers, and they read historical fiction to round things out.

If you do want them to write short papers, you may need to pose a very specific question for them to answer. I teach literature to the same group of middle schoolers, and I give them regular short writing assignments. We started with single paragraphs and have worked up to three-paragraph essays. They also have assignments in which they imitate a particular literary form or author's style. For example, we're currently reading _The Hobbit_ and just finished discussing the chapter in which Bilbo and Gollum have the riddle contest. Their assignment for this week was to write a riddle like the ones in the book. They've also had to write "secret messages" in runes to each other, again imitating the style of runic messages in the book. For history, you could have your students write a letter, make diary entries, or give an interview using the voice of one of the characters from a book they've read.

HTH!

[Gretel Deem]

That is just fantastic advice. Thank you. You sound like a super teacher - my children would have a blast in your class and I believe I would as well! You have shared some super ideas and I look forward to implementing them. History has particularly been an issue of great interest and at times also great stress due to a feeling of what-do-we-do-with-this-now!!!? Thank you for answering and directing us. Any other thoughts on writing and literature, seeing as how that's your specialty? They are 9 and 10 and read quite a bit. Their comprehension is also good but we don't do much with sharing information orally as we should due to my health issues. We try to stick to classics and had thought this year we would focus more on Shakespeare's tales and have lighter books kept for "free reading". Perhaps we should do in literature just what you suggest for history? We get our books from the library and so cannot do one book all year - we must break it up. I do not want to add just so many "good books" but rather serious works to grow with, hence the focus on Shakespeare, etc., as suggested by Drew Campbell in his book Latin Centered Curriculum. Do you have suggestions for reading? What would you do with your students in the 4th grade and under these conditions?
Thank you again!

[Mungo]

Perhaps we should do in literature just what you suggest for history?

For those ages, I think that would be just fine. If you decide to use Lambs' Shakespeare, it's worth buying if possible. If not, it's also online in several editions:

http://books.google.com/books?id=nNMXAAAAYAAJ

http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=lamb&book=shakespeare&story=_contents

I would keep the lighter books for free reading and just focus on the basic LCC readings during lesson time.

Best wishes,
Drew