Separate English Grammar Curriculum Required???

[AdrianMarie]

When using Memoria Press Latin programs, Prima Latina & Latina Christiana, is a separate English Language Arts/Grammar curriculum required?

I'm just wondering how comprehensive the Memoria Press Latin is for English Grammar.

Thanks!

[martin]

Adrian Marie,

There is one question that every parent or teacher teaching Latin has to answer: how to spend their instuctional time. In regard to the teaching of Latin and grammar, there are three answers:

1. Spend all of your time on English grammar;
2. Spend some of your time on Latin and some on English grammar;
3. Spend all of your time on Latin.

There are many programs out there to accomplish the first of these. Many people who do both use Shirley Grammar when they do the English grammar.

But many people do not even know that the third thing is even an option. We think that there is a good case to be made for it. If you have 60 minutes to spend, and you are trying to decide how much to devote to Latin and how much to English grammar, you could spend 30 minutes on each. But you could also spend the whole 60 minutes on Latin.

The question is, what would you lose? If you are learning grammar while you are doing Latin anyway, why not just do Latin?

If you consider the arguments for why Latin is so good at teaching grammar, you would have to ask yourself why you would want to teach it in English in the first place. We have several articles on the site about this.

Martin

When using Memoria Press Latin programs, Prima Latina & Latina Christiana, is a separate English Language Arts/Grammar curriculum required?

I'm just wondering how comprehensive the Memoria Press Latin is for English Grammar.

Thanks!

[Sue in Maine]

Hi,

My two-cents here: I have seen that the success of Latin students (both my own kids and those in a class I taught) was dependent upon their understanding of English grammar. That was the biggest obstacle for many of my students. I had to spend way too much time expaining English grammar before adressing it in Latin, which hindered our progress thru Latin. If a student does not understand the difference between a direct object and indirect object---and you'd be surprised how many older students didn't!--- then the use of accusative and dative cases means nothing to them. My strongest students were those that also had a working knowledge of English grammar. I foresee that for this fall as well: when we address relative pronouns that introduce adjectival clauses, they need to know what that is in English so they can concentrate on learning the Latin vocab and forms.

I took several years of French, from middle school through college. The thing that kept me back from making substantive progress was my lack of fluency in English grammar.

I have used LC for a number of years and Henle for two. I do think they are both solid programs, but LC is pretty light on grammar. If you intend to continue on to Henle, their English grammar needs to be well in place.

In short, I think a solid grammar program (like Abeka, Winston Grammar, The Rules of the Game) will only set them up for success. It doesn't have to take long; consistency and progess is the key.

Sue in Maine

[martin]

Sue in Maine,

I think what you are saying is very true. I would add that I think the need for a prior understanding of grammar is less marked when you start Latin early. If you begin by using a program like Prima Latina very early on, for example, which is, in one sense, a language arts program based on Latin that teaches grammar concepts, your need for having another grammar program is reduced dramatically.

In other words, I think the earlier you start teaching Latin, the less you will need another English grammar course.

Thanks.

Martin

Hi,

My two-cents here: I have seen that the success of Latin students (both my own kids and those in a class I taught) was dependent upon their understanding of English grammar. That was the biggest obstacle for many of my students. I had to spend way too much time expaining English grammar before adressing it in Latin, which hindered our progress thru Latin. If a student does not understand the difference between a direct object and indirect object---and you'd be surprised how many older students didn't!--- then the use of accusative and dative cases means nothing to them. My strongest students were those that also had a working knowledge of English grammar. I foresee that for this fall as well: when we address relative pronouns that introduce adjectival clauses, they need to know what that is in English so they can concentrate on learning the Latin vocab and forms.

I took several years of French, from middle school through college. The thing that kept me back from making substantive progress was my lack of fluency in English grammar.

I have used LC for a number of years and Henle for two. I do think they are both solid programs, but LC is pretty light on grammar. If you intend to continue on to Henle, their English grammar needs to be well in place.

In short, I think a solid grammar program (like Abeka, Winston Grammar, The Rules of the Game) will only set them up for success. It doesn't have to take long; consistency and progess is the key.

Sue in Maine

[TechWife]

This is my first post on this forum. I was looking for lesson plan ideas to implement our study of Latin, beginning with Prima Latina this year.

My ds has had three years of Shurley English (1-3). It is a very complete program and he excelled in it. We are not doing a separate English grammar program this year, instead we will be focusing on our study of Latin with Prima Latina and then Latina Christiana as well as beginning the Student Writing Intensive B from the Institute for Excellence in writing. Our history program utilizes a lot of reading, both fiction and non-fiction. After we finish SWI A, we will integrate writing into history and science. I think between Latin, IEW, History, & Science, we will be well covering all of the components of a Language Arts program this year. Most likely we will hit grammar again in 5th grade, before those middle school years start!