Latin direction needed

[strider]

Hi folks,

I am not sure which way to go with our Latin studies. (I also posted this question on TWTM forum.)

My dd is 11yo, and she does very very well with foreign languages. She has been taking Spanish for years and is doing remarkably well with it. A friend of mine invited her to join their Latin co-op 1 1/2 yrs ago. Dd enjoys the co-op a great deal. We are working through Latina Christiana. During the week she is expected to watch the video, do the workbook pages, and memorize the vocabulary and various chants. The co-op meeting quizzes their memorization and plays Latin games.

I am not learning Latin with her. With everything else going on in our life (and there were some significant things over the last 3 years) I was very happy to just trust my friend with Latin.

Dd is doing fine with memorization, and she is also doing really well with keeping Latin and Spanish separate in her own mind. I don't have any issues with her doing two languages. Honestly, it's a strength in my family--my father was fluent (seriously fluent) in several languages. While I cannot claim fluency like his, I seemed to inherit the knack for languages as well.

My daughter's Spanish teacher is extremely fluent and teaches through immersion. Dd therefore doesn't really do any translating in Spanish, though she speaks it comfortably. While dd does do some study of the grammar of Spanish, her teacher plans to introduce formal grammar much further on down the road. In the meantime, dd's immersion consists of her primary tutor, a secondary tutor who plays games and reads books with her, practicing with dh, and Rosetta Stone.

Dd's Latin difficulty is specifically with translation. She is pretty bewildered by it. This week she is in Latina Christiana 2, lesson 7. She has struggled with translation all along, though she does manage to figure it out 3/4 of the time. BUT she feels so bewildered! My sense is that it is partially because the co-op really doesn't work on translation as much--so far it is heavily focused on memorization and on games. I also wonder if the dryness of the presentation in co-op and the curriculum, especially as compared to the richness of her Spanish immersion (stories, comics, conversation) is hard on her.

My options:

--Force myself to learn Latin. Languages come easily to me BUT I am so strapped for time, and I really don't *want* to learn Latin. I have always dreamed of learning German (my father's native language) and kind of think that if I am going to put in the effort of learning a language, it should be German. However, I have a feeling that if I apply myself to Latin I could help her with translation.

--Get extra tutoring. I did at one point hire one of the older kids in the co-op to help my dd. I ended up feeling frustrated because they completed the homework in just 15 minutes, and the kid just was too young (even though she is a *great* kid and willing to help) to understand how to explain and keep practicing with dd for longer. That said, I could try to either train this kid or find another Latin tutor to help for 30 minutes a week.

--Find another Latin resource (ideas anyone???) that can help my dd understand how to fit the pieces of the puzzle together. Is there some trick or resource I can use to help her understand how translation works?

I do NOT want to quit Latin for her, partially because she enjoys the co-op, and more importantly because her skills are so heavily in the area of language arts and foreign language. The extra study in Latin will benefit her strengths greatly in the long run.

Thanks for your advice.

[Laudo]

Latin and modern Spanish are completely different things. In my opinion, Spanish is the most academically useless language one could study. It does not teach order and grammar the same way Latin and many other languages do. If I were you, I'd have her drop Spanish (she can easily pick it up again later on), and start finding other things to add to her Latin learning. You don't necessarily have to know Latin yourself to be able to help her with drills, or to put up vocabulary signs around the house, or play translation games with her. Perhaps she could get together with one of the other Latin students once during the week and practice together.

On the SAT's they broke down information regarding scores and which foreign languages the test taker had studied. Latin students came in as number one on the verbal skills portion of the SAT. Following close behind were Greek and Hebrew. Somewhere in the middle was French and German. Tied for last place with another language was Spanish. Like I said, Spanish is a very good language to learn for practical purposes, but it is the most academically useless language out of all the choices. Don't let this opportunity for your daughter to learn Latin slip through your fingers. It's much more valuable than Spanish. Even if you give up on Latin it would be better to go for German or French.

[LisaNY]

On the SAT's they broke down information regarding scores and which foreign languages the test taker had studied. Latin students came in as number one on the verbal skills portion of the SAT. Following close behind were Greek and Hebrew. Somewhere in the middle was French and German. Tied for last place with another language was Spanish. Like I said, Spanish is a very good language to learn for practical purposes, but it is the most academically useless language out of all the choices. Don't let this opportunity for your daughter to learn Latin slip through your fingers. It's much more valuable than Spanish. Even if you give up on Latin it would be better to go for German or French.

Wow! I did not know that! Thanks for sharing that information. That just confirmed my intent to have my dd study Latin through 9th gr. My older dd studied Latin through 8th gr., and we put her in ps in 10th. She started out in Spanish I, but it was too easy, so she asked to be switched to Spanish II. Her schedule would not allow it, so they put her in Spanish III. She did amazingly well, considering she had no formal Spanish.

[LisaNY]

Strider, you might want to have your dd. jump to Henle. For many people, Henle makes all the puzzle pieces come together.

Another suggestion I would make is to have your dd use a reading-based text, like Oerberg's Lingua Latina, or Cambridge. I wouldn't have her do the exercises, just have her read them. Both texts have email lists full of very helpful people.

Nothing makes the Latin come together better than reading it, in the context of a running storyline. This has been proven in my own Latin studies. Your dd's own experience in Spanish indicates that as well. She is being immersed in the language, which is the best way to learn it. Rules are necessary, but in order to really get to know the language, you need to read it often (in the case of Latin), or speak it often (in the case of Spanish).

[strider]

Thank you for offering your wisdom. I really appreciate it.

We will not be dropping Spanish. Not only is it spoken world-wide, it is commonly spoken where we live. It is one of the most practical, lifelong skills I can give my daughter.

I have been coaching her a bit more through her translation homework. Even though I do not know Latin, I was able to help prompt her just enough for her to put the pieces together. Sometimes all it took was for me to ask, "Did you learn this in a former chapter? Can you check?" or "Would this be on one of your charts?"--those simple questions mobilized her to dig for the answer, and often she was able to figure it out very quickly. It was encouraging to both of us--I realized that she knows more than she thinks, and that part of the problem was knowing how to utilize her resources effectively, and she really appreciated my presence.

I think the tip about READING Latin makes a lot of sense. Reading Spanish and conversing ad hoc has helped my daughter enormously, so it makes sense that Latin would be the same. It also helped C.S. Lewis make huge leaps in his language abilities (you can read about it in Surprised By Joy).

So in summary, I think the answer is for me to be just a little more involved in my dd's Latin studies. She can always talk to her Latin co-op teacher about heavy-duty questions. In the meantime, I will sit right next to her while she does her homework, and I am going to get some supplemental Latin reading and games for her to help with the immersion.

Thanks again.