Where can I cut back?

[robin]

I'm hoping I can get some help here before we are all completely burned out.
We've been homeschooling for nine years and basically love it. However we're exausted. I have a thirteen year old son, an eleven year old daughter, a four year old, a three year old and a one year old.

We start school each day at 8:00a.m. and don't get finished until bed time(of course we have to stop for meals). The older children start with spelling 20min. typing 20min.,then math tutoring 20min., math problems, speed drills and correction one hour, latin one hour, science one to one and a half hours, english grammar and composition one to one and a half hours, catechism and Bible lesson and memory work at least an hour, history and history notebooks at least an hour, literature at least an hour, violin for a half hour.

This does not leave time for art or music theory. I feel like I'm not getting enough accomplished and I'm overworking all of us at the same time. We have no extra time for doing the fun stuff and I really feel like I'm neglecting the little ones. If I had a classical school by us I would seriously consider it.

Now, for the help. I saw on the back of my Memoria Press catalog a stack of books with the heading something along the line of, " Too many subjects and not enough time? Try classical schooling". Well, I called and asked them what subjects I might be able to drop and there was really no response. So I'm hoping I may get help here. Any suggestions on how I can classically school our children with out burning all of us out?:confused:

[classical4mom]

I understand your frustration! We have just switched to this Latin Centered idea and it has totally streamlined our day and made homeschooling so much better!

We don't do extra spelling or language arts. We do Latin (PL and LC1) as our "main subject". We do our grammar from Latin (except for doing Rod and Staff orally for a few minutes a day, because I already bought it for this year). Then we do math. These are our two main subjects, and as long as we do those, I am happy.

Basically, teaching the grammar/language arts through Latin allows you to "drop" these other subjects.

There's more ideas than I have time to post. For more info, and wonderful discussions on this topic join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LatinClassicalEd/

We also only do history one day a week, and we don't do any formal science and wont do so until high school

Nanci :)

[classical4mom]

I hope I didn't make it sound simplistic, like you just cut out subjects. There are lots of reasons for the streamlining, which has been proven throughout many years of history.

In the group I mentioned about, we have read Climbing Parnassus, which is an apologia for Latin and Greek centered education, and there is also a homeschooling dad who also posts on Memoria, who has written a book (not yet published) about this very subject which you can read part of in the files of the above mentioned website. He makes this very understandable and not so simplistic as I may have made it sound.

Hope this helps relieve your burden! I have 4 children, roughly the same ages as yours (except you have one more), and I know when I streamlined, I felt a tremendous weight lifted off my shoulders! I feel like I'm a better teacher and a better mom. I love things that clear up mental storage space!

Nanci

[robin]

Thank you for your responce, Nanci. I will definitely check out the web list you mentioned. I really feel like if we don't cut back in some areas our children will learn to hate school. However, it's really hard for me to let go of anything. I want to know they are getting a great education that will inspire them to learn for a lifetime. At this rate I'm afraid the opposite will happen.
Thanks again,
Robin

[Valerie]

I also was feeling overwhelmed trying to cover all the subjects I thought had to be done to give my four daughters a classical education. There was no way to fit in all the subjects in one day!
After reading Tracy Lee Simmon's book, Climbing Parnassus, however, I decided to focus on four subjects, Latin, Greek, Math and Music. To gain the benefits of mind and character which Simmons argues in his book can come from studying Latin and Greek literature, one needs to have enough facility in those languages actually to read them with some ease (eventually). I decided the only way to gain such facility would be to drop other subjects, such as history, science and English grammar. With the added time spent on Greek and Latin, however, and the concomitant acceleration in progress, the girls are getting more than enough grammar. We also do Latin and Greek history incidentally, and they spend spare time reading high quality English literature. In addition, they take a fun after school science class at the local community school. We all feel more relaxed and pleased with the progress everyone is making. Homeschooling is now fun and rewarding again!

Valerie

[magistra6]

Wow! I've been thinking about streamlining but I don't know if I dare cut back as much as some of you have! But it gives me food for thought. Robin, here are some things we've done which might be helpful.
1. I don't know the levels of your kids, but we put our three in 10th, 8th and 7th together for history, literature and grammar and the 8th and 7th graders do the same math and science as well. It's so much easier for me to prepare and teach.
2. Read literature aloud at dinner, and discuss. Only analyze/write about a handful of really good books, and just enjoy the rest.
3. Only do science once or twice a week. It's not that important, especially at this age. If you have a text, consider doing half this year and half next.
4. Do the history notebook only one day a week. Summarize the week's reading or pick one event/person to write about. Don't do composition as well on this day.
5. Are they getting enough grammar in Latin? If so, you could skip English grammar. Or do some lessons orally instead of written. Could you do oral lessons in Bible, as well?
6. Reduce the amount of written work in math, grammar, etc. Most textbooks give many more exercises than are needed to learn the material. Do just the odds, skip every other exercise set, or pick and choose what's appropriate for your child.
7. Drill math, Latin, Scripture at other times instead. How about while driving in the car, while taking a walk, while doing chores, or over breakfast?
God bless,
Julia

[robin]

Julia,

Thank you for some great ideas. I'll be putting some of them into action. In keeping your children in some of the same subjects, will you work graduation any differently than the norm? I know I'm jumping ahead a little, but with what I"m trying to cover, it looks like I may graduate our seventh and eighth graders at the same time.

Thank you for all of your helpful suggestions,
Robin

[magistra6]

Robin,
I've had my kids graduate at the normal age, and will continue to do this. I had 2 sons in 11th and 12th a few years ago doing most of the same subjects and the next year, the younger one got an extra year to do additional things he was interested in. A friend of mine did have 2 sisters graduate together (the older one was kept back) which seemed to work for them. I keep kids in the normal grade for their age because it works better for dealing with outside things like scouts, soccer, religious ed, and the inevitable question, "What grade are you in??" The grade level is just a number not really related to the level of the work they're doing or which sibling they might be studying with. Does that make sense?
God bless,
Julia

[ktan]

You mention below that you focus on four subjects. I am looking to find
a good Greek curriculum for my children, ages 11 & 13. What do you use?
I already have Jim Founds' "Basic Greek in Thirty Minutes a Day" which teaches alphabet and the goal is to read the New Testament in Greek, but
I understand that this is different from being able to read Ancient Greek.
Any ideas? After reading your post, I read Climbing Parnassus-Thanks! We are also now centering only on Latin, Greek, Math & Music.
Thank you:)

I also was feeling overwhelmed trying to cover all the subjects I thought had to be done to give my four daughters a classical education. There was no way to fit in all the subjects in one day!
After reading Tracy Lee Simmon's book, Climbing Parnassus, however, I decided to focus on four subjects, Latin, Greek, Math and Music. To gain the benefits of mind and character which Simmons argues in his book can come from studying Latin and Greek literature, one needs to have enough facility in those languages actually to read them with some ease (eventually). I decided the only way to gain such facility would be to drop other subjects, such as history, science and English grammar. With the added time spent on Greek and Latin, however, and the concomitant acceleration in progress, the girls are getting more than enough grammar. We also do Latin and Greek history incidentally, and they spend spare time reading high quality English literature. In addition, they take a fun after school science class at the local community school. We all feel more relaxed and pleased with the progress everyone is making. Homeschooling is now fun and rewarding again!

Valerie

[Valerie]

At first I used "Hey, Andrew, Teach me Some Greek," when my daughters were younger (6 and 8?) just to learn the alphabet. It goes very slowly, something like a phonics book for kindergarten or grade one students, so it may be far beneath your 11 and 13 year olds. Then I switched to "Athenaze" , by Maurice Balme, published by Oxford, when the girls were 10 and 12, which I suppose is intended for high school and even university level. It is not like Latina Christiana, in that it includes reading right from the start, and requires the students to figure out some vocabulary and grammar as they read, but it starts from the basics and we take it very slowly, adding lots of drills for forms. The grammar is almost identical to Latin, so they find that easy. In addition, I studied Greek at university, so that helps. The girls think the stories are fun and there is interesting information about ancient Greece, with illustrations and photographs. There is a textbook, workbook for extra practice, and a teacher's book, which provides translations and answers (but it's only available for teachers; I had to explain my situation to the publisher and then they sent one to me). I hope this is helpful. Perhaps someone else may know of another Greek programme which is more like Latina Christiana.
Valerie

[abbey]

I am looking to find
a good Greek curriculum for my children, ages 11 & 13. What do you use?
I already have Jim Founds' "Basic Greek in Thirty Minutes a Day" which teaches alphabet and the goal is to read the New Testament in Greek, but
I understand that this is different from being able to read Ancient Greek.


ktan,

New Testament Greek is called "Koine" or "common" Greek. It was the "common" language of business throughout the Roman empire at the time of Christ. When people speak of "classical Greek" they are speaking of a collection of ancient Greek dialects, including Attic and Homeric (and to some extent Koine) and other dialects. Koine is a rather simplified ancient Greek basically because it's the language everyone spoke (and it's from a later time period than Homeric, etc), but they're still closely related. In many ways, Koine is closer to Attic (the language most non-seminary students begin with when they learn ancient Greek) than it is to Homeric. Most students find that they can go from learning Attic to reading Koine with almost no transition at all. Students who learn Koine first will need a little more help learning the (relatively minor) differences before they advance to reading Attic texts. My own experience in college was that we were just thrown in to any other dialects and expected to figure them out on our own, based on a background in Attic. ;)

We knew, in our family, that it was very important to us that our children learn Greek as well as Latin from an early age. Because of that, we were disappointed at the dearth of programs available for younger children, and a lack of quality in the ones we did find. So we had a hand in publishing "Elementary Greek" (ElementaryGreek.com)... It's a Koine program suitable for 2nd or 3rd grade and up. For us, we feel that beginning with Koine makes sense for younger children because it is relatively simpler than Attic, and because the New Testament is full of appropriate and *familiar* literature for young children. When children complete EG, they can go on to either another Koine program (we would recommend Mounce or Machen), or to an Attic program like Athenaze or Reading Greek.

If your children are already high school aged and have a strong background in Latin (and that would probably mean a couple of years of Henle in addition to LC), you could probably begin with Mounce, Machen, Athenaze or Reading Greek. It's my understanding that Mounce has the most "helps" for self-teaching, though there is also a self-teaching guide for Reading Greek. All of these are rather challenging if you don't have a teacher though, and at some point you might well want to seek out a tutor / teacher / mentor in your area who can help you through the rough bits.

I do think, whatever you do, it's good to give kids time to develop a foundation in one ancient language before adding another. Our oldest is in LC2 and has only just begun EG, and the background has certainly made it easier for him. I wouldn't start both too closely together, for fear of giving kids an "introduction" to both languages without any real depth. A strong foundation in one language will make learning the other far easier -- whereas just dabbling in both will likely prove frustrating.

[classical4mom]

I highly recommend Elementary Greek. It can be found at opentexture.com There are three levels, 1, 2 and 3. There is a workbook, CD for pronunciation, and a book. I can't remember price exactly, but it wasn't very expensive (I want to say around $30 or so) for each level.
It is extremely homeschool friendly. We just started using with my 7, 9 and 10year olds. The children all love it.
It is definitely a program most like the Memoria Products, especially the Latin programs.
HTH,

Nanci

[crblomquist]

Wow, everybody on this thread seems deeper into the classical model than I am (Latin and Greek!), but it is only my first year, so I am slowly finding my way. I also try to mix in some Charlotte Mason concepts. About cutting back, I've found that instead of trying cut back on any subject, because I value them all, it helps to restructure my week. On Mondays and Wednesdays I do religious studies, language arts, and math; on Tuesdays I do history, science, and Latin; and on Thursdays I do art, music, and P.E./health. I also have the girls do independent assignments daily on certain things, like math review/drills, independent reading, spelling and music practice, and poetry or Scripture memorization. On Friday we have go to homeschool co-op, or I use that day for field trips, catching up, and brain-stretching games, puzzles, and handicrafts (like sewing or cooking). Structuring the week this way means that I do as much as I can in a day on those three subjects, and that's it. Having only three subjects to focus on (though other subjects are touched on every day) means I have to cover more in a subject in one day, but it's easier to focus on only three subjects. So far, it's working well. My sanity is improving, and I don't think we're behind on anything.

[jeremiah213]

One of the genius concepts at the core of classical curricula is to seek a real quality education, the reality is, you then have to do less. The only trick then is (and those above have answered this already) you must be sure to pick the correct few. I encourage ya'll to keep a watchful eye out for "Multum non Multa" A wonderful book named after the very thing we speak of. Thanks