Derivatives and LC I

[suzholden]

Hi,
I have just started LC I with my 4th grade daughter. I have a question about the derivatives with each lesson. We have the flashcards with the vocabulary words and are learning those, but do we also need to make flashcards of all the derivatives and learn the meaning and spelling of those? Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you!
Suzanne

[jeremiah213]

I would not recommend making flash cards for the derivatives themselves. Latina Christiana really focuses on the grammar, and because of this we intentionally lowered the amount of other memory work required of the students. For example most Latin programs have up to twice the vocabulary that we require. I would say that derivatives are like strong muscles. You can focus on getting strong muscles, but really they're best made as a by-product of hard work. Pick those derivatives up along the way, and keep up the good work!

[suzholden]

Thanks for your time and advice,
Suzanne

[Laudo]

I was also going to ask a question about derivatives. We just go to the chapter in Prima Latina where they put the derivatives right next to the vocabulary words (lesson 8) and I don't find that very helpful. My son is 7 years old (2nd grade), and no matter how I explain it to him he just doesn't get the difference between a derivative and a translation. So I'm having to just skip the derivatives altogether (as I've been doing up to now for the same reason.) Is it going to hurt him down the road if we just skip derivatives for now? I learned Latin in college and we very rarely looked at derivatives. That was just something I naturally picked up from looking at English words and realizing that they came from a Latin word we had learned that week.

[oral deaf ed]

I'd like to respond to Laudo. I see it's been a while since you posted the question, so in the following months, you probably figured out what you wanted to do. Nevertheless, I'll weigh in with my perspective. I have a 4th grade girl and a 3rd grade boy in LCI. They did PL last year. (But we never finished because we moved to another town and were interrupted. This is relevant: initially I thought I'd need to finish their PL book to catch up before starting LCI. A friend told me everything in PL is going to be in LCI and there is no need to worry about finishing PL. I'm so glad; she was right and it would have been a poor use of time.). In addition, I am also doing PL with my 7-y-o boy and my 5-y-o girl. While the older two in LCI are doing all the memorization and work, the younger ones doing PL are simply memorizing the 5 vocab words each week, and I'm going very slowly. Here it is January and I realize we might be moving too fast. If they memorize the whole book, what will they do next year? They won't be ready for LCI. So I'm doing no grammar or writing with them--it's strictly oral. The way I see it, I'm just familiarizing them with the vocab, making it easier later. But I wouldn't worry about derivatives with the younger ones at all. Like someone said, it will kind of come naturally. In our case, the younger ones overhear what the older ones are learning. They see the flashcards and hear us talk about where English words came from. It's very easy to be overambitious at first. I don't know if you have older ones. I would pace yourself so he continues to enjoy it. Hope that helps.

[Terri S.]

While I understand that stressing the derivatives with the youngest children is too much work, one major point of learning Latin (unless you'll be reading original text in Latin later) is to be able to decipher derivatives when encountered in reading later. If you totally disconnect the relationship and never require them to learn some of them early on, that connection is lost. The sciences and medicine are heavily derived from Latin and just being able to understand how a word roughly translates makes learning anatomy, for example, MUCH easier and quicker. That also applies to vocabulary sections on standardized tests.

Many of the derivatives are not normal vocabulary for younger ages, however many others are. I would focus on familiar derivatives only. For example, Prima Latina, Lesson 12 includes the preposition "sub" and derivatives are submarine and subway. Most young kids should be able to grasp and remember it. The tougher ones can be saved for later, but may sound familiar when presented again!

[Laudo]

Thanks for your replies. I do use use a derivative whenever I come across a vocab word that he absolutely does not remember no matter how many times we drill it (sub-submarine was actually one of them). One of the other problems I have besides him not understanding the difference between "derivative" and "translation" is that his English vocab is not wide enough yet to be helped with derivatives. So I can say to him "porto sounds like portable" to try to help him figure out the translation to porto, but then I find out he doesn't know what "portable" means in English! I suppose this is one aspect where we work in reverse: the Latin helps strengthen the English vocabulary. So I think for Prima Latina I will use the derivative just when he has trouble remembering the translation, and he may also learn a few English words along the way.

[Javanel]

My son is six years old and in the first grade. We did PL last year and are working through LCI this year. We memorize the latin vocabularly but not the derivatives. Instead, when we come across a word in our regular conversation that I know derives from a Latin word we've studied, I use that opportunity to tie the words together and add additional derivatives from the same Latin word.